North East Xterra Club
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Knock Sensor Workaround
https://www.nexterra.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2071		 Page 6 of 6
Author:  KTM [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:23 pm ]
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Quote:
NEVER USE CARB CLEANER ON A FUEL INJECTED MOTOR.

Carb cleaner will destroy any rubber or plastic pieces.


Thanx but too much of a blanket outlook for my taste.
Yes, as I implied in warning, various synthetic materials used in sensative sensors or some seals can be wiped out or adversely affected by petrol based solvent but generally vac lines, connectors, and the usual stuff has enough bulk or physical qualities (thickness, type of media/plastics) to where the quik once over of petrol based solvents is just cleaning surfaces and unclogging things rather then melting or warping them all to hell. Generally you don't want to use solvent based on inside lines unless you blow them out right away after and run engine. Reason being is that solvent based can't evaporate away inside as it does when cleaning exterior parts unless in direct path to intake. Case for use of such inside is when you distinctly know that engine oil or foreign matter or dirt is already in process of contaminating whatever item in question. Is better to remove the contaminant then to let it sit there causing engine problems or eat at and soften lines/hosing and the like. If one is worried about it they can utilize carb cleaners that use waterborne solvents which are usually made with glycols or butyl (2-butoxyethanol, etc.) with a touch of sodium hydroxide (aka-NaOH,lye, caustic) but it doesn't do near an efficient job as solventborne. I use and deal with both in my line of work so I'm suited to keep both in my repertoire when dealing with mechanical stuff.
It all does come down to a risk ratio when doing mechanical cleaning or refurbish work. Choice at times becomes a thing of weighing out cost of a part to replace versus cost to try and fix or clean it. Just look to the use of the deep Sea foam methods discussed above as a good example of risk. Unsure how many times one can get away with running that through a cat before it ruins it but it sure is better to clean it and get my light off then pay for new ones in my frugal opinion.
Author:  K29398 [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:52 pm ]
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Thanks for the tips.

Started looking through the FSM more and it seems to make a bit more sense (was usually WAY too much info for me to really get my head around) and now see the exact location of the KS...what a PITA.

Based on what I was reading and following the links and steps through diagnostics it seems that having a code scanner really is the best way to trouble shoot this more than anything, which I think was suggested somewhere along in this thread by Scott/Dagger.

Seeing as I don't have one, I'm quickly finding it might be worth the investment not just for this but other stuff. Any suggestions for a decent scanner for a reasonable price? Ideally I'd like to be less than $100, or even $75 if that's possible. OR if someone has a "loaner" they'd be willing to let me borrow that would be SWEET!

Or does AutoZone or something like that loan these out like they do with other tools?
Author:  KTM [ Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:38 pm ]
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Autozones by me on West coast don't loan them out any longer. Used to be you give them a c note while you borrowed it. Check Kragen to buy one. The $80-$100 level goes on sale for like $50 now and then. Cheaper ones work fine too...menus may work different to where you don't get everything listed on a screen all at once or such. Unsure what extra features more expensive ones have besides that..
Author:  daggerdoggie [ Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:38 pm ]
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The problem with most less expensive scanners is they don't provide the actual values for the code problem. Many codes are sent by errant electrical voltages that may or may not be a problem with the sensor itself. Which is why, if you replace the sensor, the code may come back.

The ECM is just a glorified voltage meter. It checks the voltages sent to it from each sensor: seeing if the voltage is within the specified limit.

Since many of us wheel our trucks, other factors, like water intrusion into the connectors in the wiring harness can mess with the voltages.

Having a scanner that will give you the actual voltages, that can be checked against the Electronic Service Manual can be very helpful in diagnosing the problem further than just pulling the code.
Author:  BigDog107 [ Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:37 am ]
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Nice write up. Luckily I haven't had to do this....
Author:  ArxFortis [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knock Sensor Workaround
I've read through the how-to a couple of times, but I'm not exactly clear on which way the sensor is and which way the ECM is on the wires.

I have a 2004 Frontier S/C LB. Under the hood, everything looks exactly like the the photos. In addition to the high volt error, I am also getting a P0505. (I'm wondering if this is due to me installing an Air Raid filter a while back.)

What I'm not clear on is which way did you solder the leads from the new sensor? After you cut the wires on the front side of the green connector, did you solder the new leads into the short ones left in the connector? Or did you solder them directly onto the wires left in the harness/split core?

I have mounted the new sensor in the same spot on the supercharger mount as in the photos, but I'm not really sure what goes where with all the wires.
Author:  daggerdoggie [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:55 pm ]
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I soldered the wires to the tabs that connect to the sensor, not the sensor itself. The "hot" wire to the ECM is the thicker, grey wire that is shielded. I know it is hard to see in the picture, but you can tell by the thickness of the wire. I think one of the problems that Nissan has with this errant code is the shielding of that wire. It doesn't take much to get an errant code and a little interference can make a big difference. We're talking milli volts here. The other wire is just a secondary ground. The knock sensor is already grounded to the engine through its mounting point and the bolt. There are two wires on the knock sensor just so you can ohm it out and check to see if it is within spec.

I'm sure you can Scotch tap into them, but I do like to solder any of these connections for added security.

Now that I've said all that, I'm not sure I answered your question.
Author:  ArxFortis [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
daggerdoggie wrote:
I soldered the wires to the tabs that connect to the sensor, not the sensor itself. The "hot" wire to the ECM is the thicker, grey wire that is shielded. I know it is hard to see in the picture, but you can tell by the thickness of the wire. I think one of the problems that Nissan has with this errant code is the shielding of that wire. It doesn't take much to get an errant code and a little interference can make a big difference. We're talking milli volts here. The other wire is just a secondary ground. The knock sensor is already grounded to the engine through its mounting point and the bolt. There are two wires on the knock sensor just so you can ohm it out and check to see if it is within spec.

I'm sure you can Scotch tap into them, but I do like to solder any of these connections for added security.

Now that I've said all that, I'm not sure I answered your question.


Let me annotate one of your photos to illustrate my question...

Image
Author:  daggerdoggie [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
"A" get tapped off, ended..."B" goes back to the ECM and gets hooked to the now knock sensor location.
Author:  ArxFortis [ Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
daggerdoggie wrote:
"A" get tapped off, ended..."B" goes back to the ECM and gets hooked to the now knock sensor location.


Awesome! Thank you!
Author:  ropetob [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:57 pm ]
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Daggerdoggie, and anyone else on here that has done the KS relocation mod, does everything still seem to be working fine...sufficient power/boost? How long since you last changed the KS?

The reason I ask is because I relocated my KS to the firewall on my 02 S/C following a post by GothamEMS on clubfrontier, the reason being is that I have a read about some people that have had problems with the relocate to the S/C due to the noise produced by the S/C. However, I'm still getting the P0328 code. The bracket that I relocated to has some rust/corrosion that I think is preventing a good ground. The S/C would be a better place from a purely mounting standpoint, but I just want to see how successful it's been for you guys. Let me know.
Author:  daggerdoggie [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
I posted this in April of 2008 and there was no codes when I sold it. I did check and there were still no codes as of January 2010.
Author:  ropetob [ Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
I believe that, but did it maintain full power/boost the entire time you had it? From what I've read, the KS will pick up on the noise/vibrations from the S/C when it's mounted to the S/C, which makes sense. If that's the case, the KS will work correctly by retarding the timing and sending the S/C into fail-safe mode, which defeats the whole reason for relocating the KS in the first place. Just wondering where I should go from here...

Thanks
Author:  NUKEhead [ Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
I didn't read through all 6 pages but back in 08 there was question about why soldering in resistors worked as the ks is not 'just a resistor' and from what I've seen of the resistor mod, it looks as like the resistors are placed between the ecu and the ks, which would help the "high input" by reducing the voltage that is too high.
Author:  black [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knock Sensor Workaround
Just bring back this thread as I ahev the dreaded P328 witha CEL

So...long story I sued to get this a btou 5 years back and after 2 tanks of Super unleaded gas and the CEL woudl go away. These days it pops up and stays on.

Inspection is this month and I need to decide the $$ and time to do this KS issue
Relocation?
resistor mod or just pay the mechanic.

How long does it take to move the KS in the NA engine? Do I need to take off the plenum?
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